Curse

ValidusMonachus · May 19, 2006, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Well, I just wondered if anyone had handy tops to help us a long our way. We were created 5 days ago and have abour 35 members. We really want to GvG and are willing to do whatever it takes to get ourselves in shape for some guild battles. We have no idea where to start when it comes to builds etc and we really need some help.

Cheers for any good advice.

JR · May 19, 2006, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Do you have a Ventrillo server? If so I can drop by and discuss some basics with you. PM me to set that up.

Generally builds wise you can learn a lot from reading the threads in the GvG Builds section, particularly those in the Build Directory thread. Read builds, descriptions, feedback... it all helps to give you an idea.

Actual GvG strategies per-map will take a long time to go over. It may actually be easier for me to go in to some scrims with you and show you the tricks.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff too, can't rush these things.

dansamy · May 20, 2006, 12:42 AM // 00:42

Observer mode. Watch only the top guilds. I'd say top 25 or so. It would help if someone knowledgeable and experienced, such as JR, was available on your voice chat to discuss the tactics, strategies and builds that you are observing. Sometimes, it looks chaotic to the uninitiated observer. An experienced eye can pick out what you need to focus on seeing.

Experience. Truly, there is no greater teacher than getting your butt kicked and regrouping afterwards in a stunned "How did they do that?". Figure out how they did that. Talk about it. Were you hexed to Hades and back? Were there conditions everywhere? Did they split your team up because there always seemed to be an infiltrator after your guild lord?

For builds, you can browse here or at some of the other PvP-oriented fan forums where builds have been posted. Try to steer clear of "gimmicks" until you have a basic grasp of running a more basic and balanced build and basic tactics for each of the maps avaialable. ("Gimmicks": IWAY, blood spike, ranger spike, obsidian flame spike, Pallyway.)

Organization. Anyone who knows me and how I run a guild knows that I hate chaos. I'm a huge fan of guild forums and voice chat and scheduled GvG nights with specific time frames laid out. Are they super-critical to your success? Maybe not. Do those things make it much easier to actually focus your game time on the task at hand (GvG and improving the teamwork and strategy of your group)? Certainly.

<3 JR, btw. For all his "loaded god complex", he is good.

Wasteland Squidget · May 20, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Agreed with Dansamy and JR.

One thing that I'd add which has really helped us is consistency. Decide on a single build - if you're new to PvP it can often be a good idea to take a build used by a high-ranked guild until you're more experienced. Then run that build with the same players in the same roles as much as you can. Get the same people playing the monks, the same people playing the warriors, ect.

This is a big help because you can start getting coordination down between players. You'll find your play improved immensely if you're working with players you are experienced with, and if you know what every member of your team will do it becomes much easier to react when something unexpected happens.

It's very tempting to constantly change up your build or players based on what you've just fought, but consistency pays off a lot more in my experience.

JR · May 20, 2006, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

Experience. Truly, there is no greater teacher than getting your butt kicked and regrouping afterwards in a stunned "How did they do that?". Figure out how they did that. Talk about it. Were you hexed to Hades and back? Were there conditions everywhere? Did they split your team up because there always seemed to be an infiltrator after your guild lord?

Agreed 100%.

The very worst thing you can do, is take a loss badly. I have experienced this myself; you lose a match, people get pissed off, morale goes down the pan, and GvG is over for that night. It is key that you really think about how the other guild beat you, watch it on Observer Mode if possible. Discuss it with your team mates; What was giving your monks problems, why were your offensive team struggling to get kills... etc.

There is no better way to learn than from your own mistakes, and everyone makes mistakes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Agreed with Dansamy and JR.

One thing that I'd add which has really helped us is consistency. Decide on a single build - if you're new to PvP it can often be a good idea to take a build used by a high-ranked guild until you're more experienced. Then run that build with the same players in the same roles as much as you can. Get the same people playing the monks, the same people playing the warriors, ect.

This is a big help because you can start getting coordination down between players. You'll find your play improved immensely if you're working with players you are experienced with, and if you know what every member of your team will do it becomes much easier to react when something unexpected happens.

It's very tempting to constantly change up your build or players based on what you've just fought, but consistency pays off a lot more in my experience.

Agreed 100%.

Constantly changing up your builds may be more enjoyable for some people, but it will not get you anywhere. It is absolutely key that people get used to their roles in builds, and are completely comfortable in them. Find a decent build that you and your guild is happy with, and largely understand, and stick with it. Maybe consider some minor modifications, but possibly ask for advice on that before implimentation.

<3 dansamy, even if you are the anti-JR.

dansamy · May 20, 2006, 01:00 AM // 01:00

May I remind you that you were the one who compared me as a polar opposite of yourself and thus a perfect compliment?

And yes, Squidget pointed out some basics that I totally forgot. Team psychicness when you can know, just know, that your monks have got your warriors covered and your support players are looking out for your backline is a pretty big deal. And it only comes from having the same people play the same spots with each other over a long-term basis.

Loch · May 20, 2006, 01:19 AM // 01:19

The biggest thing you want to avoid is inflated egos over Vent. You need to be able to discuss things comfortably with your teammates without egos taking over. If someone made a mistake or just played in a way that didn't work, you need to be able to discuss this with the player so that the team can improve.

After all, there's more to a team of eight than just the eight individuals.

Guillaume De Sonoma · May 20, 2006, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Head over to teamiQ forums and go to the PvP fundamentals and the GvG central areas. They contain a lot of information.

Edit:

http://www.team-iq.net/forums/

Patrograd · May 20, 2006, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by dansamy

. Team psychicness when you can know, just know, that your monks have got your warriors covered and your support players are looking out for your backline is a pretty big deal. And it only comes from having the same people play the same spots with each other over a long-term basis.

This is why almost all of the top PVP guilds are 10 or 12 players in total. A regular team of competent players playing a system they understand is one of the very key things in any competitive environment

Guillaume De Sonoma · May 20, 2006, 11:39 PM // 23:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Do you have a Ventrillo server? If so I can drop by and discuss some basics with you. PM me to set that up.

Generally builds wise you can learn a lot from reading the threads in the GvG Builds section, particularly those in the Build Directory thread. Read builds, descriptions, feedback... it all helps to give you an idea.

Actual GvG strategies per-map will take a long time to go over. It may actually be easier for me to go in to some scrims with you and show you the tricks.

There's a whole bunch of other stuff too, can't rush these things.

That sounds like dj Wheet's adopt a guild program.

.defekt · May 21, 2006, 03:27 AM // 03:27

I would say that making your own build and using that basically 100% of the time, with mostly the same people, will help greatly. Try to run the same build with the same people on the same character each time until you feel you have played it enough, and perfected how to play it. Then move to another build.

Try to get people that you know can play a specific character (eg Monk) confidently, and stick with that person for that build. Ask in Guild Chat for people that are confident in the roles you want filled. Write the names down, and organise a night (or nights) when those 8 people meet to play your chosen build.

Good luck!

Extreme Days · May 21, 2006, 12:54 PM // 12:54

Schedule times to gvg, have 8 people commit themselves to play at a certain time every day/every other day. not all 35 people in your guild will be able to gvg. just get a solid 8, or if you have enough people get 2 teams of 8 (16 players) and just alternate gvg dates per week.